Ellen's Mandy Patinkin Page
Theater Week February 22, 1993

Learning Love Is Not a Crime

Mandy Patinkin on Falsettos, Joe Papp, gay rights, and family.

I last spoke with Mandy Patinkin in the summer of 1989, when he was awaiting the release of Dick Tracy-in which he played 88 keys, pianist for Madonna's Breathless-and about to open on Broadway in his one-man show. Among his plans were two films: Impromptu, which he did, and Evita, in which he was scheduled to reprise his Tony-winning performance as Che ("If they can get the whole thing together."). They still haven't.

His accomplishments during the interim include touring extensively in Mandy Patinkin: Dress Casual; filming The Doctor; starring in Born Again, the short-lived London musical version of Rhinoceros-("directed by Pete Hall"); and portraying Uncle Archie in The Secret Garden, which he terms "one of the most enriching things I've ever done."

Since January 19, he's been "having a great time" playing Marvin, having succeeded Michael Rupert in Falsettos.

Theaterweek: What attracted you to the role of Marvin?
Mandy Patinkin: My first attraction was to the piece as a whole. I was very much moved by it-and what it expresses in terms of the goal to try to have relationships with people; how one struggles to be close with people one loves: children, friends, family. And what that costs an individual; what that individual has to learn to let go of, what that individual has to learn in order to go to others. It really affected me.

In terms of the role of Marvin himself, I guess he's frighteningly similar to my own personal journey in terms of selfishness and self-absorption-things like that.

It was basically my marriage [to actress-author Kathryn Grody] and my children [Isaac and Gideon] that made me “hit the wall”- to use a marathon term - and realize that either I was going to have to change and grow up a little bit, or I'd end up an 80-year-old man with nothing, sitting in a rocking chair, talking to a wall.

To me, the core of the whole show is a line that's right at the beginning of the second act, when Marvin says: "It's about growing up, getting older / Living on a lover's shoulder / Learning love is not a crime / It's about time/." And the clock's ticking.

I've been lucky in my own life to have my wife and a wonderful teacher who used to be a therapist and is now just a good friend that brought me along this personal journey that is very similar to the one that Marvin is lucky enough to go along.

In terms of the sexuality aspect of the piece, I'm pretty uninterested. There's a thing that Lillian Hellman said in a book that her lover wrote-called Lilly-and it was a comment: "I don't really give a damn what anybody does in bed. I'm interested in the person." Something to that effect. That's how I feel.

Both for my straight friends and my gay friends, my only hope is that they find someone with whom to share their life on a level that they consider meaningful, and that is within each individual's bounds of morality.

Is it true that the opportunity to play Marvin came about from a chance meeting with director James Lapine on a street corner?
It's a little more complicated. When I first saw the piece, it was at Playwrights Horizons. I saw Falsettoland. I was devastated; it was brilliant! It was the only time I can ever remember being truly jealous of-and wanting to be a part of-a particular show.

But it didn't belong to me. It was Michael's and Chip's and Steve's [Michael Rupert, Chip Zien, Stephen Bogardus ]-and they were all friends. I went backstage and told them how jealous I was.

At one point, Falsettoland moved to off-Broadway. James and Bill [director/co-librettist James Lapine, composer/co-librettist William Finn] had asked if I could do it there-and I was not available. This fall, I was in Toronto with my one-man show, while James was shooting a film there. He came to see the show, told me that Michael was leaving and asked if I was free to take over. I said, "Gee, I'd love to. Let's see if we can work it out." That was it-and it happened to take place on a street comer.

I would like to add that the echo of AIDS is unavoidable in our times. It's part of every concert I do; I always incorporate a mention of it. And I feel sadly privileged to be a part of a piece that so eloquently echoes AIDS.

We could go on forever in terms of how the piece relates to things I care about.

Have you been in it long enough to have selected a moment that's the most satisfying?
[Following a long pause:] I guess the most peaceful moment is the very last one, when everybody moves together as a family-and it's sadly satisfying that there's one individual missing.

But really-and I'm not trying to be corny-the whole piece is so satisfying. It's so much fun to do. We have such a good time onstage and offstage. I have never in my life been willing to go on and sing when my voice is at half-mast-as it has been all week. I don't even do interviews when my voice is like this. But I think some things are a little more important than my voice.

Falsettos is one of them. I don't think it matters shit what my voice sounds like.
           
Since the show is entirely sung, is it harder to learn?
Music is the easiest thing for me to learn. It's much easier than a film script or Shakespeare-well, Shakespeare is easier 'cause it's musical.

I've learned that I have to do everything out loud. I was working on the script of Music of Chance, the movie I just did. I worked on the thing for three or four months and couldn't memorize the words. I had a conversation with a teacher from my kids' school and she asked if I was doing it out loud. I said no. I did it out loud and had it in a day and a half-after three months of busting my tush.

What is Music of Chance about?
It's based on a book by Paul Auster. Phillip and Belinda Haas did the screenplay, and Phillip-who's a documentary debut.

I play a guy who has a kid and my wife leaves me. I leave the kid with my sister, inherit some money, and hit the road for 13 months. At the end of the money and the road, I run into this punk, played by James Spader, who has a big poker game to go to-but doesn't have any money. The game is run by two eccentrics-Charles Durning and Joel Grey; I stake Jimmy, and we lose everything. The film is about what we do to payoff the debt.

I'm deeply proud of it. We’re very excited because it's the first American film chosen for this year's Cannes Festival.

Do you have a third record album in the works?
Yes, I'll record it in April-for Warner/Elektra/Nonesuch. It's a suite of old songs, but they're all connected and tell a story. It's 47 minutes of music that never stops; it's the story of a relationship. The last song will also be the title of the album, "Experiment." It's a Cole Porter song from Nymph Errant. Jonathan Schwartz turned me on to it.

In the fall, I'll go on the road with a new concert tour. I'll probably start it in New York, for a week. The new tour will have two parts. The first will be the new album; then, following an intermission, I'll do some of the old stuff and some things I'm working on.

You did an extended concert, one night in 1991, following the death of Joe Papp.
I was onstage for over three hours. I finished, as I usually do, in about an hour-and-three-quarters. I told the audience that I should be sitting shiva, but that I thought that Joe would want me to do the show. We had buried him that day. He was a deep, deep part of my life, my children's lives [pointing to a framed photograph of Papp and Patinkin's sons] -and always will be.

I told the audience that I was terrified of going back to the hotel alone, that I was going to change my shirt, come back and sing every song I know-until I passed out. Everyone stayed. Those people took care of me. It was wonderful.

Joe got me through it. When my own father died, I didn't know how to deal with it. Many years later, when my “other father”-Joe-died, I was stunned.

How was doing The Secret Garden?
Glorious! I just loved it-once everything settled down. To learn about the garden and about how you live through children is a complete parallel to my own life. It sounds corny, but it's all so damn true.

As our hair thins out, we've got to get something. I'm grateful for the sprinkles of wisdom that come with the wrinkles.

What is your reaction to being spoofed in Forbidden Broadway?
You mean' 'Somewhat Overindulgent" [a satire of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow," as performed by Patinkin]? I've gotten a copy of it. I may well do it in one of my concerts. I may not do it as well. [He laughs.] I will be offended when they do not spoof me.
 
What have you seen recently that's impressed you?
The election of Bill Clinton. People standing around the block, waiting to vote. It thrilled me to be an American-and to be living now. And, every day, watching my kids grow. . .

Actually, I was referring to what you've seen onstage.
I would say that the only thing that impressed me was Falsettos-the three times I saw it. It knocked me out every time!

When things are written in a simple way-the way that Steve Sondheim writes, the way that Bill Finn writes, the way that William Shakespeare writes-the material has such echoes on so many different levels. On a night when you think you know what it all means-that the color red looks like that [pointing to my red sweater]-you go out there, and the color red looks green. You don't know why-it just does. And nobody's going to tell you it isn't. That's how rich the stuff is. It's so pared down; it's got all the crap off it. It's one of the reasons I wanted to be part of it so much. I just hope I'm not screwing it up.

Colorado Controversy

On March 6, Mandy Patinkin is scheduled to do his one-man show at the Denver Center of Performing Arts:

"I was contracted to do it, before the election. It's a big benefit. After the election [and the passage of the antigay rights measure in Colorado], I wanted to support the boycott [of Colorado].

I was advised that, if I did, I was open to a major lawsuit-as were my producer and everyone involved.

It was quite a dilemma. I investigated. I found this man at the ACLU.

We have chosen to present our concert at the Arts Center in Denver -incidentally, the people at the Arts Center took out an ad in Variety to say that they're against the amendment and the entire company of Mandy Patinkin: Dress Casual: Paul Ford, Michael David, Lauren Singer, Eric Cornwell, Otts Munderloh, Mary McGregor, and myself will contribute all the money-$35,000-as seed money for the ACLU-sponsored project for Lesbian and Gay Rights.

I encourage other performers to go to these places, take their money-and use it to fight them. I think that it's vitally important for people's rights and freedoms to be protected."

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